| Author | Message | ||
     David E Username: Davide Registered: 12-2006 |
Read something that I thought looked interesting : An article recently by Gil Reynolds(issue 73 of SGN, received via Tempsford Stained Glass) suggesting that instead of only hot combing glass in the kiln to create patterns - glass 'pastes' can be made up and applied to a glass substrate piece and worked cold - then dried and kiln fired. Seems amazingly creative and straightforward - assuming that you can get hold of the base product itself (Fuse Master Liquid Stringer Medium -a water-based binder to be mixed with the glass powder and then combed). I can't seem to find anyone that stocks the stuff over here - has anyone tried it ? | ||
| Helena Ross Username: Helena Registered: 04-2007 |
You can make your own lquid stringer medium http://www.warmtips.com/20050913.htm Haven't tried it myself yet but have everything to get started. | ||
| Helena Ross Username: Helena Registered: 04-2007 |
When I was at Reading Stained Glass yesterday they had some. Selling it a £20 a bottle. They don't have an online shop yet but if you give them a call on 0118 9351490 they will probably be able to post it to you | ||
| David E Username: Davide Registered: 12-2006 |
Thanks Helena, the stuff sounds like fun! I think I might try the CMC route first if I can find that - sounds brilliant. Cheers. | ||
| Cathy Carr Username: Cathycarr Registered: 12-2006 |
I have a book by Richard La Londe - Fused Glass art and technique. He uses alot of frit and cmc and gives recipes. I had my copy posted from USA, but if you would like further info let me know. | ||
| David E Username: Davide Registered: 12-2006 |
Thanks Cathy - The warm glass tips archive Helena referenced is actually a Richard La Londe recipe for the 'liquid glass' medium. The book sounds interesting - I saw it on Amazon USA but for $125 + p&P which seems a bit expensive. Any other source, or should I expect to pay about that? | ||
| David E Username: Davide Registered: 12-2006 |
PS: I have now ordered some CMC powder -avalable in large packet to make up 5 Litres (£18.99 & p&P) so should keep me busy for a while! | ||
| Vic Rothman Username: Vic2 Registered: 12-2006 |
goggle Ricard La Londe. He's selling the book for $55 | ||
| Cathy Carr Username: Cathycarr Registered: 12-2006 |
I bought it direct from him - the $55 sounds about right. He replied personally and promptly with postage costs to the UK and was very friendly and informative. http://www.richardlalonde.com | ||
| David E Username: Davide Registered: 12-2006 |
Wow! Thanks folks. I checked out the website which I thought showcased some incredible work. It was nice to see that you can take a 10 page look at some of the book too - very readable I'd say. I've e-mailed for info. to order a copy. Another entry for my personal 'hall of fame' ! | ||
| Jon Stamford Username: Jon Registered: 12-2006 |
David, where did you get the CMC from? | ||
| David E Username: Davide Registered: 12-2006 |
Jon, I got it from 'Papershed' now part of 'fibrecraft' - a bit confusing as both websites are still running and the larger packet only appeared in the Papershed site - but is now on both! So I 'phoned fibrecraft and ordered the larger packet over the 'phone. P&P was a further £4.95 - which considering it is a small lightweight jiffy bag seemed a bit steep - but there we are. Papershed http://www.papershed.com/products.asp?childCategoryID=30&categoryID=8&parentCate goryID=1 Fibrecrafts http://www.fibrecrafts.com/Level2.asp?Level1=1&Level2=16&Level3=0&PID=0&Action= | ||
| Cathy Carr Username: Cathycarr Registered: 12-2006 |
Jon - I was about to ask the same question, so thanks. Spent some time yesterday trying to work out exactly what CMC was since it can be used for food products etc. One of the references pointed me in the direction of wallpaper paste. I read some of the data sheets and it does appear to be the same stuff so I was considering trying that as I have it in the house. I've also heard that seaweed gel can be used (though it might be a bit smelly) Anyone know anything more about this? | ||
| Pat from Canvey Username: Pat Registered: 12-2006 |
Carboxymethylcellulose comes up if you google composition of CMC. Anyone further interested I'll ask my son the analytical chemist. | ||
| Rona Moody Username: Rona Registered: 12-2006 |
I've used seaweed gel for marbling fabrics and papers - no smell at all! 'course, I don't know what would happen if you burnt it, but the refined gel is very refined - you've possibly eaten it in ice cream and not noticed... | ||
| David E Username: Davide Registered: 12-2006 |
From what I remember from schooldays .. alginates are used for all kinds of stuff from glazes on ceramics to jelly. The basic property being a gel/glaze. CMC however is basically a water soluble cellulose. From my googling it seems that vast quantities are used in all manner of foodstuffs. CMC seems to get used in silk and paperworking too. Presumably Richard LaLonde et al discovered that it burnt clean in a kiln, maybe they tried other stuff too. I would suspect that an alginate would leave a residue. | ||
| David E Username: Davide Registered: 12-2006 |
Just to note - received Richard La Londe's book -today - it is excellent and I am eagerly reading it ! Service was incredibly prompt and helpful. He reckoned 5-7 days and it was actually 4. Total inc. cost $71.35 - and worth every cent I'd say ! Thanks everyone for pointing me in his (direct) direction. | ||
| David E Username: Davide Registered: 12-2006 |
Does anyone know where to get hold of some small plastic squeeeze bottles with a conical 'spout' and cap ? Ideally 25 to 50 ml range. I have various full ones - glues, paints etc but can't seem to find any empty ones from anyone. (All in aid of keeping some made up CMC-based 'liquid stringer' to hand in various colours as a pallette to choose from). | ||
| Pat from Canvey Username: Pat Registered: 12-2006 |
Try http://www.measomfreer.co.uk/interface/menu-bott-anc.asp | ||
| Pat from Canvey Username: Pat Registered: 12-2006 |
Or Google Plastic Dropper Bottles | ||
| David E Username: Davide Registered: 12-2006 |
Pat, thanks, I think I was googling with 'plastic squeeze bottle' or some variant & not getting too far - have now found several companies - thanks to 'plastic dropper bottles' ! | ||
| Jon Stamford Username: Jon Registered: 12-2006 |
David, do post some pix once you get this working. I would be very interested to see them (speaking as someone who has never had the bottle to hot-comb). | ||
| David E Username: Davide Registered: 12-2006 |
Jon, will do. I have just ordered 30 plastic squeezee bottles today so hopefully can get it going soon! And no I have not tried hot-combing for myself either ! | ||
| David E Username: Davide Registered: 12-2006 |
The story so far - back from holiday and started to experiment. Made up some bottles (17) with coloured powder but having trouble getting the CMC/powder mix at the right consistency - seemed absolutely okay at the mix time then was obviously wrong as the lines had later spread out rather than stayng in situ. I did not notice this as it was a while after I put an item in the kiln by the time I got around to firing up and it had spread in this time - so a blurry mess came out the kiln rather than my nicely drawn artwork ! I am going to make up some thicker CMC to add to just one of bottles and also will add some more powder then try again. Once it is working I am sure that it will be a great creative technique. Anyone else trying this self-mix, if you have any tips much appreciated. (If all else fails I guess I could also try the ready made stuff ). | ||
| Pat from Canvey Username: Pat Registered: 12-2006 |
Why not use gum arabic and water as in usual stained glass enamels. An alternative to that is clove oil. I prefer the oil because I love the smell. Both burn off in the kiln when firing. | ||
| Pat from Canvey Username: Pat Registered: 12-2006 |
Forgot to say they leave no residue. Whatever tools you use to provide paint effects in acrylics or oils, can be used to work the enamel paste into whatever pattern you choose. I've even used half a potato with shapes cut into the surface to print with tracing black, much like childerens potato printing. | ||
| David E Username: Davide Registered: 12-2006 |
Firstly, reviewing Richard laLonde's book and also an exchange of e-mail with him - I am pretty sure that I actually have the CMC mix more or less right - just not enough glass powder in it - so am awaiting a delivery. [By the way the CMC really does burn off with no residue - and very little smell at all (and fairly pleasant) ] Secondly, thanks for the idea Pat. I have glass painted and fired various things (just with trace paint, gum arabic and water) but these were basically flat images wheras I am now also trying to build up a multi layer piece, adding and containing frit within areas defined by the lines 'drawn' and usinig a tack fuse or fuse cycle. I am getting intrigued as to what can be used though. Why not gum arabic and water too - although I suppose the thing with CMC is that it is easier to obtain a range of viscosity to keep at the ready in squeeze bottles - wheras I suspect a gum arabic/water/powder glass mix would tend to set hard if left as a mix in a squeeze bottle - air and all that ? Anyway you have encouraged me to try some further experiments - thinking about it, trace painting requires a much lower temperature than fusing too. But what exactly is an enamel - is it just the powdered frit I am using mixed with a binder ? | ||
| David E Username: Davide Registered: 12-2006 |
On the 'cold combing' trail with CMC mix glass powder pastes. Tried a painterly rendition of a Lily group as a trial - as second attempt is definitely heading in the right direction - I look forward to the next one! With this piece I tried an outline of black for some key lines and then filling in the lily petals by overlaying pastes of red,orange and yellow as main lily petals with medium amber 'shading' towards centres. I bent small pieces of stringer for stigma/stamens and red stringer for anthers The CMC/powder mix is hard to get absolutely right and it is essential that they are fully stirred before use. [If you end up with a mostly cmc spot - then you get a 'space' in firing ] Would be pleased to add a photo how do I upload ? | ||
| Ed the Editor Username: Ed_the_editor Registered: 11-2006 |
To upload your photo, click on Help/instructions at bottom of box, and read how. The explanation is obscure, but when you click on POST you will get asked to browse for your picture and it all becomes clear! | ||
| David E Username: Davide Registered: 12-2006 |
 | ||
| Cathy Carr Username: Cathycarr Registered: 12-2006 |
Nice attempt David. I'm just about to try this technique. It definately looks painterley, I like the way the colours have mixed. How high did you fire it up to and are the 'holes' where the base glass is shown due to the amount of powder you applied? I have been reading about volume control in his book, but can't guess the amount of powder to use.I've got my CMC and have ordered some powders, so here goes... | ||
| Ed the Editor Username: Ed_the_editor Registered: 11-2006 |
Looks a bit like a Rhodesian Flame Lily. | ||
| David E Username: Davide Registered: 12-2006 |
Lots more 'learning points' for me, I think. I am aiming for painterly and am now pondering on the relative use of the new 'CMC pastes' I have made in conjunction with pieces of fusible glass laid over the base and also frits. {Perhaps even a full fuse of pastes over glass pieces for each petal and then tack fused to base). (Generally it seemed to me that Richard La Londe uses the paste for a line to act as a boundary to then add and keep frits each side of it etc. ) I am using 3mm Tekta as a compromise on the volume front due to expense of thicker really whilst experimenting. There is some edge buckling but not greatly so. I did notice a lot more fine bubbles in this experiment - fired direct on kiln shelf - last experiment over thin fire pretty much bubble free or miniscule. The holes are, I think, a particular drop of the CMC/powder mix had separated out (i.e. not stirred properly) then the CMC burns off and leaves a colour 'hole' filled by base glass. I was experimenting with different viscosity pastes - to blend some whilst still wet others overlaid practically dry - to see how well the blending works - or not! (Medium amber - a bit gooey rather than firm was applied as the last 'touch' to the Lily centre before adding stamens etc.) What seems odd is the apparent 'shrinking back' of the colored frit from the lily - well actually it is probably the other way around - the CMC burns off and reduces volume of the Lily ! Programme was Full fuse to 803 degrees C for 15 mins - to ensure stringers for stamens etc fuse fully into surface {not very visible in photo). Best advice I can give so far on powders is - I use about 80-90g powder to my CMC gloop to about 1/3 of the little plastic dropper bottles. I now know that it really needs to be stirred, settled and stirred again - and always again before use. My guide to consistency now is that it has to form a dimensional line that does not spread within 1 minute and dries off well with a hairdrier without being 'pushed about' by the hot air. the botlle has to be just capable of giving a line when squeezed fairly strongly - if it is easier to squeeze a line will be too spreading for creating boundary lines to contain colour. image{set up} | ||
| David E Username: Davide Registered: 12-2006 |
Initial set-up  | ||
| Pat from Canvey Username: Pat Registered: 12-2006 |
"last experiment over thin fire pretty much bubble free or miniscule. " I got some fantastic shelf paper from Creative Glass in Rochester, Kent. Virtually no residue adhering to the glass at pot melt temperatures, 930 deg centigrade. You can download their fusing catalogue at http://www.creative-glass.com/e/download/catalogues.php | ||
| David E Username: Davide Registered: 12-2006 |
CMC update Recently bought their last 300g, dated 5 October, at their standard price - total incl. vat and carriage £12.53 from www.toppotsupplies.co.uk . [Bit of a difference from first suppliers i.e. less than half the cost.] But if anyone can do any better please let me know! |